Physical and mental health therapy for open-heart surgery
#5 Boots Knighton interviews her cardiac physical therapist, Cassie Fuller. In this impactful conversation, Boots and Cassie talk about the importance of listening to the body's clues it gives when healing post open-heart surgery. They also talk about the importance of vulnerability and asking for help. Boots feels this episode is particularly important for heart patients to listen to because Cassie coaches the listener on how to find the right practitioners in your area and what to do if it isn't the right fit.
Boots apologizes for the low quality on her end of the recording. She is still working out the kinks of being a podcaster. Thank you for your patience.
You can find Cassie Fuller at https://www.kilterpt.com/ or email her at cassie@peakptjackson.com
Website: The Heart Chamber (theheartchamberpodcast.com)
Transcript: Joyful Beat | The Heart Chamber (theheartchamberpodcast.com)
The Heart Chamber (@theheartchamberpodcast)
Thanks to Michael Moeri for being my right hand man. Michael Moeri - Audio Editor, Podcast Producer and Marketing Director
Thanks to Denise Hardy for your support and believing in me. linkedin.com/in/denise-hardy-30a51086
0:00 introduction
2:00 Boots gives the background to finding Cassie, over a year later after her open-heart surgery.
3:20 Boots shares that because of cardiac PT, she is finally feeling a sense of hope that she is going to be ok
3:50 Cassie breaks down how she has been working with Boots (for example, objectifying the whole picture of Boots's life and the load on the heart)
5:00 Finding Boots's baseline to inform care
5:45 Boots shares how Cassie helped her gain more awareness around load on the heart and what load is in general and how it contributes the healing in the body.
8:00 Boots was "out of whack" when she came to Cassie but was struggling to accept how her life had permanently changed due to heart surgery. Boots did not want to let go of the life she had been living prior to surgery but Cassie helped her come around through education and compassion.
10:00 Cassie talks about mountain town culture and what happens when the physical lifestyle gets taken away by illness or injury and how the emotional side is being addressed.
11:40 Tracking Boots's load and once written down, it became clear how overloaded Boots's heart was and how to readjust lifestyle.
13:00 Cassie highlights all the ways we say no to our bodies and how that is troublesome and how to listen to the signals our body gives us.
14:40 Boots shares what was most helpful for her as far as body clues.
16:00 Cassie explains why it was and continues to be so important to stop before my body gave me signals to stop.
17:00 Boots can do everything she wants to do, but she has to be mindful and moderate.
18:00 Cassie talks about what the "rest day" means to the mountain athlete and how problematic the lack of rest days are for the body.
19:00 Boots is not interested in a heart replacement which is why she found Cassie. She plans on living a life of moderation so can avoid another heart surgery.
20:00 Please leave Boots a voicemail about your cardiac rehab
20:30 How can a heart patient prepare for open-heart surgery which includes mental health therapy.
21:30 Preop therapy is so important
22:00 Internal family systems and how the body gives us a clue what it needs.
22:50 A guided relationship between body and mind matters a lot.
24:30 While pre-op therapy is very specific, writing down bio markers is extremely important before and after. Having the baseline is so helpful.
26:30 Boots emphasizes the importance of mental health therapy for open-heart surgery, particularly internal family systems and how her heart let her know it needed help.
28:00 Boots is finally finding her "central self" two years post surgery.
29:00 Because Boots worked through the "muck" of open-heart surgery and the importance of perspective. She now thinks of open-heart surgery as one of the greatest moments of her life.
29:45 What does it mean to heal well post-surgery? Cassie talks about the "why" we do what we do.
31:30 Our essence matters much more than what we physically accomplish.
32:30 Cassie talks about how there is a need for more guidance in emotional and mental healing after surgery.
33:00 Boots lacked the education to know better as her body gave her signals to stop.
33:40 Cassie talks about the importance of cardiac rehab.
36:00 Boots talks about her ability to be vulnerability and how it helped her in her rehab. Asking for help is such an important skill.
37:00 The willingness to be vulnerable and be seen.
38:00 Cassie talks about finding a PT you can connect with matters.
38:00 Boots believes we all are here to live amazing lives.
39:40 Boots has come to a more peace-filled, joy-filled place.
40:50 Cassie emphasizes how finding care can be frustrating but keep looking. Don't lose faith or hope.
42:00 Boots believes that if you have survived heart surgery, there is a plan for you.
42:30 Cassie coaches the listener on how to handle if a practitioner isn't the right fit.
Transcript
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Boots Knighton: [:She specializes in the assessment, rehabilitation, and progression of the mountain athlete with additional certifications in the running athlete. As well as professional bike fitting. Cassie is also a yoga instructor. She started the Fuller Yoga Project in 2020 after finishing her 200 hour yoga certification, she teaches both private and group yoga classes.
tic approach of yoga. Cassie [:Integrating the mental health aspects of healing from any injury into her physical therapy yoga practice. I hope you'll find this episode helpful, whether you are the patient or you are the caregiver. And if you like this episode, please share it wide and far. Also, make sure you subscribe. and I am accepting donations on my website.
nues to grow and is listened [:Cassie Fuller, thanks again for, joining me. know, Cassie and I, have become acquainted. Thankfully over my heart. She has been helping me. Bounce back, but Cassie has come on a little later in the game. part of me wishes I had found Cassie sooner, but I also have to trust that it's all, you know, my path, my healing journey has fallen into place as it's meant to be.
s it the sum this past summer:Cassie Fuller: have, yeah, I think it might have been
summer
Boots Knighton: together.
It runs
Cassie Fuller: Later
Boots Knighton: And originally, blessed my surgeon, but you know, his, know, directive to me after surgery. Cause I was like, what do I do? Do I go to rehab or whatever? He's like, just go on living your best life. And so I did, and then I kept hurting myself because I kept doing too much and.
[:Cassie Fuller: yeah
Boots Knighton: So, yeah. And so I thought today we could, first talk about, what Cassie. Cassie, I was hoping you could explain what you and I have been doing together. and then we're gonna zoom out for the general cardiac patient and approach.
So we initially talked about[:And then in some way, shape, or form trying to objectify them so that we could zoom out and see what the total picture was like. So not just looking at one workout or one ski or you know, even like a week, but having data for a bunch of different metrics that we could go back and see trends. Cause a lot of times, I think in all things rehab, especially for people who are in the middle of it.
It's hard see trends. to It's hard to see victims, though they may be small, sometimes they're huge, which is great and it's really obvious, but a lot of times it takes physically writing things down so that you and I have something to chat about as far as what's working, what's not working, then with those variables to figure out what the best scenario is for you.
the past and where they were [:And then we've used that when we can be in person. To see and to also use it as a, new
a
we can bump up to new baselines and then have something to refer back to. so I think that's been kind of the main thing that you and I have been focusing on and trying to figure out how all of that works an environment. mean, we live in Jackson Hole, so everything is quite aggressive and. we push our bodies daily for better or for worse, and trying to figure out what's for better which is hard for everybody.
Boots Knighton: Yeah. And you and I have spent a lot of time talking about that. I hear a couple of things there. you helped me gain more awareness
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm
Boots Knighton: around my, I think you called it, like, load.
can you explain that real quick? What load is.
tressors or what contributes [:Stressors from social life or family or or the stuff that I'm having you do in pt. All of the things contribute to an overall load, and we're trying to play with all the variables within the load to figure out what can we turn up and what needs to turn down. So we find this like equilibrium of balance between. of it, which is hard because everything changes every single day. it's not like we can turn one up and then it'll stay up and nothing else will go up at the same time. So it's a lot of. I mean, it's, it is a bit of an experiment to see what each week will bring.
Boots Knighton: All
n play into the load that is [:What are the symptoms and what does that mean and how does that contribute to a healing body? Cuz it does make a difference. Um, and I see it all the time in pt, especially for people who, you know, in, in this town, everybody's an athlete in their. Way. and so we often use our athletic ventures as stress release or as identity or social interaction with other people. And then when that changes, it changes the overall load so drastically that we kind of get thrown off our game. then,
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
Cassie Fuller: we come back too quick or maybe we don't push in the right way, or, there's a lot of, a lot of things that can contribute to that load and trying what those are
to figure out
Boots Knighton: And [:Right? Like you had to teach me a lot, you know? And so for listeners who maybe don't live in our area, you know, Cassie works at. kilter PT in Jackson, Wyoming, and Jackson, Wyoming is a very active place and is filled with, you know, the typical extreme athlete, is by, you know, it's very numerous.
ys, and for good reason and, [:And I feel like I, you know, in a way, I, I admit, you know, I got, I don't know if I got caught up into that, that level of intensity, but I definitely did not want to let go of. the life I was living, which was ski instructor and mountain biking a lot, and climbing peaks and, it just, my, my heart was just saying no more.
And know, it took finding Cassie and Cassie being willing to speak truth to me and to educate me in a gentle, loving way to where I was able to hear her. and you know, not every physical therapist has that ability and you know, sure. I'm sure a lot of physical par physical therapists I worked with in the past or doctors wanted to meet me where I was at, which I appreciated, but I wasn't even able to see where I was at.
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm.
with Well hard when you live [:I mean, what we talked a lot about was. know, we're in this town where we kind of size each other up based on our athletic ventures. So on Monday morning it's like, oh, what did you ski? And how many times did you do it? And what kind of vert did you get and how long did it take you?
And who did you go with? And there's always this, even if it's subconscious, a love, like we're all kind of trying to climb a ladder. matters. It does. It does. Absolutely. But it's all. Physical. And then when that gets taken away, which happens a lot for athletes, cuz injuries happen, overuse injuries, traumas happen, surgeries happen. And when that gets taken away, I feel people
like
the last probably two years, [:I do think that, you know, the things that we do physically as far as joint mobilizations and exercise prescriptions, all of that is very important, but I also see where. The emotional side plays into it, and we're not addressing that, especially in this town. We don't address that. because it doesn't get you anywhere on the ladder.
Nobody cares If you know you have a good relationship with your partner and you're a nice human and care
you
doesn't move up in, in
you
mountain town.
Boots Knighton: maybe our conversation will change that today it it should. It should all matter, you know? And, Well, let's, you know, trace our steps here. we had to figure out my load, which took a while cuz I had to remember to write it down, .
Cassie Fuller: Yeah
Boots Knighton: And then I started to remember to write it down.
Cassie Fuller: Yeah.
the page, you know, and, and [:Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm.
Boots Knighton: and then like sprinkling in other activity around.
the other days in a skillful way so that, and then, you know, we had to identify, well, what signs my body was sending, saying, Hey, this is, this is too much.
't happy, healthy, it takes. [:Like, there's so many ways that we say no to our bodies and they will just scream louder and louder and louder and louder. Physically put us on our asses to the point that like we can't do what we were used to doing and we have to reset those priorities. so a
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
Cassie Fuller: it was stepping back and saying, you are an athlete and you have a certain relationship with your body as an athletic human, but what does that look like as far as the signals that your body is giving you that you may or may not been
the
of in the past?
Because you had to. You
haven't
needed to. There
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
know, I have my own symptoms [:But, it's, think initially as you're getting back into activity to objectify it to a certain point you know, whether it's whatever the symptoms. Zero to 10 scale or zero to seven scale. How hard was it for you? What did your heart rate do? How did you feel? What symptoms did you experience and how significant were they? looking at what your sleep quality was that week or what your lifts were using those clues.
as
That's
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
Cassie Fuller: we're dealing Puzzle that
just
have to figure out what pieces matter and what pieces we can kind of just put
Boots Knighton: right.
Cassie Fuller: to
Boots Knighton: I found that. . One of the more helpful things was, you know, being able to identify the parts of my body that were letting me know, and it was too much. And so one of the was obviously heart pain.
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm
just the immediate signal of [:Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm.
For most strictly orthopedic or cardiac or, I mean, those are the ones that I most ex have experience with. But if we're quiet and we listen to ourselves, our body will let us know when we're getting too resistance before we get to whatever the symptom is. And most of the time we just blow past that and we hit full on fatigue or we hit full on heart pain. once we're able to recognize like, oh, I mean it's, it's a subtle symptom, but if I pay attention to it now, I don't get to that extreme anything cuz I don't have to
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm Right
Cassie Fuller: well enough that I can trust that information and know from experience if I go past, there things on the other side that don't feel great. but
Boots Knighton: right
Cassie Fuller: It's really subtle. and you have to take
what that is, to
ou know, ER level heart pain [:Cassie Fuller: Just because the risk is so high for either even more change to your life, the, the risk to you Played everything else where we had to figure out how to navigate those variables so that you weren't pushing to the point and it wasn't purposeful, but that you weren't pushing to the point where, yeah, pain so bad that I need medical attention, like the risk of significant events, cardiac events happening. I don't want that on the table for you, . So trying to figure out what does that look like and can we keep you and progress you as an athlete and an active human in a mountain town, not to the point that you're pushing yourself to that level of risk. Cuz it is, it's a risk. gets scary at that point. and we don't have to. Because we can play [00:17:00] here with all the other variables, and they're really fun to play with and you can still ski,
Boots Knighton: that's the cool part. I'm still doing everything I wanna do. I just have to be really mindful and moderate and measured.
Cassie Fuller: Yeah, which to a certain extent, like we all should be kind of doing. we don't, and again, it's fine when everything's fine, but. Yeah, like I can, I went to PT school in Portland, Oregon, and my first job was working with a, not necessarily hel, uh, healthy population. and then moved to Jackson.
nee pain, I have chronic hip [:And it's very, Frequently that I'd have patients tell me two years ago I took a day off and their bodies just can't, it, it's, it can't do it. It's not possible. and it. it will make you stop either in a really big way or sometimes we're lucky and we listen to it and it like just slows us down a little bit and we let things heal and we rest and we let our body recover from the things that we've been pushing ourselves to do for years. know, chronic things like stress fractures need to be part of people's future there are things that we can do and a lot of them involve just listening to your body in a really healthy.
Boots Knighton: you hear a lot of like
is replacement of joints and[:Cassie Fuller: it's
Boots Knighton: I'm not interested in replacing my heart.
I'd like to keep mine and, you know, so that's why I went to Cassie
that was the main goal. So my heart has been remodeled
and it may need another remodeling, but, you know, and, and that's just because of the way I was born. But if I, I'd like to think that, you know, if I take good care of my bicuspid aortic valve and. you know, am mindful of how I use my heart that, you know, I might be one of the lucky few who lives a full lifetime with a, you know, a bicuspid aortic valve.
We'll see
Cassie Fuller: Yeah,
Boots Knighton: yes, .
Cassie Fuller: so close friends
rom you, like, you can go to [:I'm, I'm curious to hear from listeners and, you know, I feel lucky that, you know, Cassie is in my life. you know, Cassie, Can the general open heart surgery patient for whatever reason they need open heart surgery, prepare for such a surgery from your perspective as
physical therapist.
Cassie Fuller: Yeah. that's a really great question and a lot of answers
to it.
Boots Knighton: Lay it on us.
Cassie Fuller: I. Think you lot
had
kind of the emotional side of, of the prep for that type of surgery because it is, I mean, it's your heart. It's a really personal thing. It's different than like, you know, having a shoulder operation or you know, whatever. so I think a lot of, to be therapy
lot that our and our bodies [:It's very, very, very different.
Boots Knighton: Yeah Yeah
rent reasons Internal family [:We're. You know, whatever the, the protocol is, the step in the protocol that you're in to going back to your life. I mean, just as you said, it's like, he's like, okay, off you go, like good luck, And that, that gap matters a lot because it can be, Significant heart pain, like, I need to go to the er, this is not okay. Or we can play in that gap and figure out a way to get you back to what you wanna do physically without those symptoms. So I'm kind of, I kind of look at it from leading up and then we'll let, we'll, we'll rely on the acute therapist for that phase. And then as far as like the
chronic and
east my, Expertise, I guess, [:Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
Cassie Fuller: it and what That's
Boots Knighton: great
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm
Boots Knighton: where you and I, that's the level you and I have been operating at.
Cassie Fuller: Yep.
Boots Knighton: how about,
would you recommend like,
any specific activity leading up to open heart surgery? I mean,
honestly listeners, if like you're greatly incapacitated, like, and always talk to your own medical providers, like this is just general.
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm.
Boots Knighton: general.
Guidance Cassie is giving.
Cassie Fuller: Yeah, I mean,
think I
so individualized. I don't know if I wanna really throw a blanket
Boots Knighton: Okay.
ty is, those kind of metrics [:And then we can use. after. I do think that there's such a broad range of. Physical function that people can go into the surgery. So I don't really wanna throw a blanket statement out
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
Cassie Fuller: in, again, in mountain town, we tend to have a, generally, like the baseline human in Jackson Hole is very athletic. Um, so
Boots Knighton: Yeah
Cassie Fuller: our, population is gonna be very different. Like when I was in Portland and I was working with a lot of sedentary people, I do think that having, ideally this doesn't always happen, but, meeting with a therapist, a physical therapist, going into it and having whatever the personalized is that you can, and get in the habit of doing it. aware of the symptoms like we talked about before and listening to what your body tells you.
but I. as far as that [:I would say more the like
setup behind the scenes. These are the things that I think matter as far as after you get past that acute phase.
So I think I'm gonna do a cop
Boots Knighton: It's definitely
Cassie Fuller: there instead.
Boots Knighton: not
Cassie Fuller: and throw that out,
Boots Knighton: I mean, everything you said though is still helpful and I can't emphasize enough the therapy, and I talk about it a lot in my first episode when I share my story. So if you're just picking up on this podcast now and you haven't listened to previous episodes, go back to episode one where my story's a little long.
years together this May, May,:We started doing that in preparation for my heart surgery. and I had this vision of a little girl who was in the form of a jumpy little heart with pigtails, um, blonde haired. And I had, I could see like, know, pigtails and my heart was letting me know it needed help, and it manifested as being stuck in a basement.
but prying opened the door and begging for help. And the moment I had open heart surgery, like I talked to my therapist within a couple of weeks after that, my jumpy little heart. Was completely at peace. So, you know, there's a lot of research into the internal family system and it, and it really is kind of, I think it's just now coming on board more, more mainstream maybe.
know, we were able to start [:and my poor manager part was like trying to save my life. My firefighter part was like trying to put out the quote fire in my heart. Like everyone was like, all systems go. We've gotta save this body that we're a part of and you know, now I can do like this. Really incredible continued healing. And Cassie is right, having heart surgery is, it's The highest level of intensity of like what can go wrong in a body or, right.
m able to say that because I [:You know, I talk a lot about. in another episode with, Carrie Potter. I, I talk a lot about how I went through this whole mindset of I'm defective, I was born broken. You know, how am I gonna fix this? Am I ever gonna be perfect? And there's just not even such a thing as perfect. But you know, you just go through all these different stories you tell yourself, and none of it helps you going into surgery.
Cassie Fuller: Mm. after
Boots Knighton: Or after. Exactly.
okay, so what does it mean to heal Well, after open heart
surgery,
Cassie Fuller: This is where
and I
Boots Knighton: pivot.
Cassie Fuller: Yeah.
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
be objective, but also their [:What that means to your identity is that all of your identity, which happens a lot in this town where people come here to ski, they are skiers, all of their friends are skiers. All they can think about is skiing, and then skiing gets taken away and they don't. what to do. so I think doing a little bit of background work on figuring out why it is you wanna get back to doing what it is that you did before, if it's a modified version, same question.
Why is it that you wanna do [:Well, that
Boots Knighton: Yeah
n all of your markers, your, [:Boots Knighton: Yeah
Cassie Fuller: there's a lot behind it.
There's a really a ton behind it, and I do think there's a huge need for more mental health guidance through that. regardless of what you're healing from, but especially for your heart. I mean, that's like your essence. That's your, your, when you talk about your true self, your center,
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
Cassie Fuller: it's right there.
That's what that is. and so trying to figure
out how to be true to yourself and what that looks like,
for you, and not based on your previous expectations of yourself, and not based on other people's expectations of you, because in the grand scheme of things, those aren't gonna keep your heart
Boots Knighton: yeah.
Cassie Fuller: gonna you
y feet were swelling and. My [:when I was tried, you know, when I tried to go back to work
and in a very physical job teaching skiing, and my body just kept yelling at me over and over again and yeah, I just, lacked the education to know how to listen and it, it took me being put in the hospital.
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. get our
Boots Knighton: So with that, you know, what's the importance of cardiac rehab? why is it important to go to cardiac rehab
after open heart surgery?
Cassie Fuller: Because of these parameters that we're talking about
Boots Knighton: Hmm
lking more of on the chronic [:So then you go back to the beginning and then you try a different path and that path definitely didn't work. And then you come back where you can kind of be a little bit more fine tuning. think
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
ng. Somebody who understands [:it
function and the need for
our body when we're doing the physical activities that we're doing. but also helping
you figure out what that looks like in your life that's what matters the most, is can you then do that for yourself
Boots Knighton: It's like you have to be kind of like part mental, ther health therapist, part
life coach,
Cassie Fuller: Approach ,
Boots Knighton: I Mm-hmm.
Cassie Fuller: mean,
Boots Knighton: you
at it
. graduated from PT school in:you know, if you're, if you have blinders on and you're just gonna do the protocol and
a huge part that I think you [:Boots Knighton: I think that, you know, that it's important
for listeners to understand, you know, I
I'm not afraid to go there and I, you know, I feel like when
I had, well, I hit my head several years ago, and that has helped make. That's helped me become more vulnerable in a healthy way. but then my heart surgery really kind of solidified that skill of willingness to be seen to, you know, to be vulnerable, to ask for help.
And so, Cassie and I are able to go there because I allow it and I welcome it. And I just wanna invite you to do the same with your healthcare providers. It's amazing when you're willing to ask for help and to ask for honest feedback and you know, lay it all out on the table and be like, what am I doing wrong here?
as far as emotions and just [:Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm
Boots Knighton: does come down though, to being the willingness to be vulnerable and to be seen and knowing that, you know, you're not necessarily knocking it outta the park that day, but someone could help you get on the
right track.
Cassie Fuller: it's your story really. The rest
Boots Knighton: Mm-hmm
cognize that that's a thing. [:you right now, and being
Boots Knighton: Yeah
Cassie Fuller: send people out
to other resources, because
it's not our story. This is not my story to tell. I'm just, I'm in the background and happy to
and so should everybody else. We're all, we're all background.
Boots Knighton: I
Cassie Fuller: in the
Boots Knighton: lot of wisdom is needed and. , you know, to know, to know when it's the right time
and to know when to ask for
help.
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm.
Boots Knighton: we all have that innate wisdom like, . No one listening here
lacks wisdom. I just don't believe that. I truly believe we are all very powerful, wise humans who can live a beautiful life no matter what is thrown at us.
cided to launch this podcast [:And you know, my best life to me is being vulnerable and messing up and then asking for forgiveness. It's like all the part par, messy parts of being human and beautiful parts of being human. And. asking for help and doing it all, you know, from a wise mind who just shows up every day doing the best they can, like that.
used to because I've come to [:Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm. . You have compassion for lovely. which is
Boots Knighton: a concept.
It seems to be the theme of the year for me.
Cassie Fuller: Yeah. You're doing amazing. I'm so proud of
Boots Knighton: for being my teacher, . Thanks for saying yes. You could have run outta the room screaming when you first met me, so Cassie, this has been great. Is there any other nuggets that you were just anxious to tell our cardiac friends or, and or their caregivers or
advocates?
Cassie Fuller: Yeah.
y take. you know, some, some [:But I think to think about it as your story.
And if they don't wanna be a part of the story, that's great
and they can keep doing their thing and we can find somebody else
that can help you in a way that's really healthy. is, I mean, that's kind of the name of the game. Yeah.
Boots Knighton: And don't faith or hope, like if, if a practitioner isn't the right match
for you, the quicker you can say no move on. The quicker you'll
find the right person. So don't stay in something because you're worried,
you know that it's not gonna work out. , it will work out, be in the flow, like trust that the universe, God, whatever is your, belief system has got your back.
ry, there is a plan for you. [:you.
Cassie Fuller: Mm-hmm. . and finding practitioners that are okay. Letting you.
go to some other practitioner ,
Boots Knighton: Yes.
Cassie Fuller: to
Boots Knighton: Yeah. If they're not okay, then you really need to run, like don't walk, run
Cassie Fuller: I, do think that to have practitioner is, pt, mean, I, there are times where I'm not the right fit either. And to be able to be a part of the team enough to recognize that from a professional perspective, I think is huge as well.
So if you do have a practitioner that's just like, this isn't working for whatever reason, know, it's not a failure. Any side of the coin, it's just not either the right time, not the right person. and that's just kind of part of the story. And for people to be able
to recognize that for the patient, for the caregiver, for the practitioner, for all of us, we're all on the same.
We should all be on the same team. and sometimes
I might be the answer later.[:And that's great.
Boots Knighton: Wise advice from Cassie Fuller. Thank you so
much,
Cassie Fuller: Yeah.
Boots Knighton: and
Cassie Fuller: this.
Boots Knighton: This is really fun and you'll be able to, in the show notes, you'll be
able to go find Cassie. please don't fill up her schedule cuz I still need to see
her. she's really hard to get into. but yeah, I, I'll highlight our interview in the notes and give you all kinds of great ways to connect with her.
Cassie Fuller: Thank
you Boots
Boots Knighton: And that's the show for today. Thank you for spending part of your day with me. The heart chamber exists because of you. If you find value in this podcast, consider donating to this cause. Go to the heart chamber podcast.com and go to the donate link. And hey, while you're there, feel free to leave me a voicemail.
dition of the heart Chamber. [:
